Collins Tailing Hackle

[skondolf]

It's GREAT to see this new forum setup as it's timely for a question I have. I posted this over on the CF site but as many of you guys use Collins hackle and tailing I figure I might as well ask here as well ...

A few years ago when I first got into tying I purchased some packs of tailing hackle from Charlie Collins. Actually I purchased A LOT of tailing; it was only 5 bucks and what did I know at the time!!!

Is it "normal" for the tailing to be curled up like a comma?

I have to admit you get a lot of feathers in a bag for $5.00 but I'm finding it difficult to go through all those feathers to find one with long straight fibers. I certainly expect there to be some feathers that aren't usable for tailing but is it normal for the MAJORITY of feathers to be unusable? Or are they usable and it's just me? I find the vast majority of feathers have web running up most of the feather and the fibers to be curved upwards as you look at the feather.

After reading Mike Valla's book and seeing those long, slender tails nice and straight as well as pics from other tyer's here, I'm thinking there's no way I can get anywhere near those results. I've always had problems with tailing a Catskill Dry fly - maybe it's not so much my technique but the material I have.

I know a lot of guys here use Charlie's hackle - what experiences have you all had with his tailing material?

[mikevalla]

Skon..

Tailing is an issue. I tied those flies on #10's. try getting good tailing for a #10, let alone a 12.

I am fortunate in that I have a stockpile of "Old" Metz Necks---from back when they first came on the market. In the older genetic capes, you could still find excellent tailing along the sides. Very, very good. Straight, stiff, long.

Before Metz, the larger Indian Capes (larger than what you have today) had an abundance of spades. So many feathers with long tailing that I used to waste them. Pluck one feather, take a few barbs, let the rest drop on the floor (during kid-tying years). Tailing was not an issue. Never a problem then. Plenty.

Yes, tail packs tend to have a lot of curved feathers. Yes...but some are OK. I've used them (See my Wemoc Adams in the book. That Cree tailing was off a Collins Tailing pack)

When I'm at a Show...or gathering...I hunt down a booth with" old" capes...gathering dust. Looking for older Metz necks.
In fact..Tom and I were at the Somerset Show and I saw him up at a booth I just left. What was he doing? The same thing I had been doing...looking for older capes---for Tailing. We laughed a bit about it. Garbage to most tyers---gold to us.

-Mike

[luzerne]

Back in the 80's I guided part time for the Becks at Fishing Creek and Bucky Metz would send over some cases of what he called #4 necks not quite good enough to make the retail market but they produced fantastic tailing materials. Unfortunatly with the offshore tying factories going full steam that supply pretty much dried up. We used them as freebies at the time for customers who actually spent money. Still have some but the supply is pretty thin.

[ted patlen]

looks like the cat is outta the bag...i'm always looking for those older necks...besides the tailing i'm looking for variant/spider hackle.

[upstatetrout]

If you want good tailing now you have to go out in the countyside and find a good old rooster.If he gives you any trouble the old Fox Sterlingworth 16 ga. always wins.I checked the shows in Marlbourough,Sommersett and Charlottesville and came up with zilch.The growers have gone way to far and are charging an exhorbitant price for Capes that belong in Hackles "R" Us Magazines and certainly of too much quality than what is needed and have little to no tailing.I do not use hackle on my small flies as CDC beets the hell out of hackle anyways.Cock Deleon in spite of what I have read has always been soft. Collins and Keough are exceptions as they are breeding for tying and not just for show. My opinion of saddles is that that they make fine Dry flies for fly shop bins.. My sister in law Dee says there is a brown Rooster that roosts in the trees in back of her house here in Tampa and I'm working on my blind now.

Tom

[Joe Fox]

Here is what you do with a bag of the Collin's spades. Dump them out, toss out all the obvious junk, then look the feathers over for fiber shape (a feather the shape or your thumb thens to have the best tailing), again toss out the junk that you have no other use for and in the end that 20 - 40% that is left is amazing stuff!!! I use it for all my tailing now and for most of my variants and skaters.

Joe

[mikevalla]

Well put Joe....that's about what I do with Collins' fine stuff.

I used to constantly rummage through all the feathers, but as Joe said it's best just to deal with it, and make the separations and sort it.

In fact, it was Joe himself that convinced me to face up to unusable feathers I had..but then wood duck flank. I appeared at the shop with a small bin full, and was rumaging for some good stuff for the Guest Tyer event at the Museum. So, Joe suggested that I do myself a favor and pre-sort out the junk...then have to constantly dig around every time.

Maybe I just couldn't face the fact that not all was usuable, and my stock would be greatly reduced/

Well...from that point forward---I pre-sort. !

[greyfox]

Found some nice tailing stuff on #3 collins, on the side

[catskilljohn]

Good advice from everyone, and like Joe mentioned, dont bother keeping the bag and trying to pluck a good feather out of it, just pour the whole thing in a shoe box, and sort it out. It takes about an hour, but you get all the good stuff that will last you a long time.

When I sort mine, I keep a hackle gauge right there and measure the barbs, pull all the fluff off them, cut the stem down then bag them according to size and color. I then put them in small clear ziplock bags and into the kit they go. CJ

[Jim Slattery]

I had the same experience with Charlies tailing packs about 4 or 5 years ago at the Somerset show. I looked at a bunch of packs he had and saw nothing but commas. I looked at a few of them quite thouroghly but saw zilch. I was disapointed. I have some Coq de Leon from Spain, Paco's stuff and it is really nice...but expenisve. $3.00 or $4.00 a dozen feathers and that was 10 years ago. It's really nice..I don't want to use it. Whiting has some nice stuff and there are ways to find good stuff from them. Their tailling packs offer some good stuff but like Charlies stuff you have to pck through it. When it was $6.00 a shot it wasn't so bad now that it's $16.00 it seems kind of expensive. Whitings Coq de Leon saddles and Capes offer some good tailing feathers but it is hit or miss usually only the shorter stuff is good on the saddles and you get lucky sometimes on the edges of capes. I acutually have some CDL capes tha will tie Variants with a 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 inch collar and still hold shape and don't "mush" I have found that the Whiting American Hackle can pleasantly suprise you as well. Both Capes ( along the edges) and the shorter and side saddle hackles give up some nice stuff if you can go through some pelts.
Mike the story of taking off one feather and tying one fly and throwing the rest on the ground made me laugh . That is so true. I wish I still had those Cree and Ginger Variants ( remember that term for Barred Ginger?) that were so plentiful back in the day. The freaking capes were basically all tailing material You'd be real lucky if you could tie 16's with them. Browns and Grizzly no problem. Dun was more of a problem. All that was available was the "purple blue" dyed dun and the photo dyed stuff. Typically the photo dyed necks were on the smallish size so you could tie BWO and the Purple/Blue tinged duns were on the larger side but in most cases a bit soft on the edges. At least the ones I pawed through at the shops and Rumphs Barn. Back in those days good Dun dyed and especialy natural were as rare as hen's teeth.