Dun Variant

From Halford's early dries to the Catskill dry and everything else that floats on the surface.

Re: Dun Variant

Postby Eperous » Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:07 pm

ted patlen wrote: ...i don't want to make this sound funny or taken in the wrong way but why do some of you still use quills for fishing flies? ...


Yo - Ted... the original recipe calls for, and I quote "few turns of quill from Rhode Island Red cock's hackle"... I'm trying my darnest here to tie/fish a Catskill Classic, not an "almost Catskill classic"... :o

I'm handicapped enough here without making uncalled for substitutions... :oops:

Just food for thought, know what I mean... :?

Yo-Yo, over and out... ;)

Ed
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Re: Dun Variant

Postby ewpeper » Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:50 pm

I never liked the idea of way-oversized hackle on a short shank hook for variants, so I started tying 'em the way I thought they'd work: standard dry fly hook with a quill, tinsel or dubbed body, and a hackle just slightly oversized for the corresponding hook. This design has always worked for me. Here's a sample from when I was experimenting with one of Jim Slattery's barred ginger necks (Whiting Bronze). It's my rendition of GF Variant. Normally I'm not real crazy about hackle feather quill bodies. I prefer the quills you can buy using porcupine guard hairs, but this one worked out OK. Sorry about the very non-traditional TMC hook, but all my 94840s are still in Idaho. :-)

Eric

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Re: Dun Variant

Postby Eperous » Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:00 pm

ewpeper wrote:I never liked the idea of way-oversized hackle on a short shank hook for variants, so I started tying 'em the way I thought they'd work: standard dry fly hook with a quill, tinsel or dubbed body, and a hackle just slightly oversized for the corresponding hook...


Eric, first very nice tie... :)

Next you are the second person, since I got back on the pc this afternoon to tell me they don't like short shank hooks for oversized hackled variants. The other is a friend, a bamboo nut I fish/share the upper Neversink with on occasion.

Just the other day, after I finished tying a couple of Dun Variants - I dropped a few several times on my bench, and was not always happy with the way they landed. This was a problem reinforced by my buddy, whose opinion - like yours - I value. It also pointed out that Art's actual Variant, I own, isn't on that short a shank after all.

As Teddy said above... all food for thought... :?

Thanks.

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Re: Dun Variant

Postby mikevalla » Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:11 pm

About Flick's hook model in variants. He also used a regular 94840---in examples I've seen of his flies---from more than one source. So don't fret...use what hook you like for variants...Like anything "what era, what year, and what tier tied the fly".

I've used both shorter and regular 94840 hooks, but Winnie seemed to use the 94840 for her Grey Fox/Dun variants---and if was good enough for her, then it was what I preferred, too :D There are variations that still hold the fly true.

There is almost nothing that is "authentic" in how something should be tied...as the creators changed things themselves from time to time.

The other thing I try to remember is that there was a gulf in years between when Flick wrote his little book....and when Crown reissued it years later. He changed some things, too, in his opinions over time. like all of them did.

Let me give you some more hard evidence of Flick and his hook choices he stated in his Streamside Guide, as opposed to what he sometimes used later---in the same pattern.

Here's another example of what I'm tring to say:

If you have his Master Fly Tying Guide, published in 1972, look at that hook he uses for his Hendrickson, in his Step-by-Step. Look at the images on pages 59 and 67. Is that the hook he recommended in his Streamside Guide? No. He used, in the Master's Guide Step-by Step, a very long shank hook. He sometimes used long shanked hooks in his dry flies (and I've seen those at the American Museum of Fly Fishing collections). There's one image of that longer shank hook Hendrickson on Clarks Forum right now, posted by Quashnet, But he also used regular length hooks for his Hendrickson, as we know and is more common maybe. Did he vary hooks? Yes.

In fact---look at his page 75 figure #5. He's tying his Grey Fox Variant. That's not a short shank hook he's using. Nothing like what he may have "originally" recommended in his Streamside Guide.


What he stated in his little Streamside guide is not a fast rule in what he even used himself. From time to time he varied things a bit---an d his own writings and photographs show that to be true. And thus while he recommeded a certain hook in his Streamside Guide---that is not a rule, for sure.
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Re: Dun Variant

Postby Jim Slattery » Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:45 pm

Preston Jennings wrote much about Variants in hiis "Book of Trout Flies". As for short shank hooks vs. regular hooks he has some interesting observations from page 111 "...short-shanked hooks....lack of leverage in setting the hook....Very small hooks are often found in commercial flies....and the reason for using them is that GOOD HACKLE IS HARD TO OBTAIN and poor hackle will not support the proper size hook on the water:hence, the small hook.....
It also appears that Jennings advocates the use of regular size (regular shank)hooks.
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Re: Dun Variant

Postby greyfox » Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:53 pm

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Re: Hendricksons

Postby catskilljohn » Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:19 am

Here is that photo Mike talked about...Flick's on the left, Brewster's on the right, man what a pair of gems they are!

Image


CJ
"Gentlemen,remove your hats,this is it"
"This is where the trout was invented?"
"Oh he existed in a crude,primitive form in Waltons England"
"But this is where they painted spots on him and taught him to swim"
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Re: Hendricksons

Postby Eperous » Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:32 am

catskilljohn wrote:Here is that photo Mike talked about...Flick's on the left, Brewster's on the right, man what a pair of gems they are!

Image


CJ


CJ - thanks for posting... looks like you are NOT resizing your photos again... :lol:

My question though, Art's book calls for "olive" tying thread, both flies look like they utilized yellow thread... small point, nit picking on my part asking this question... :oops: Looking at my own Flick Dun Variant, the thread is dark...

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Re: Dun Variant

Postby catskilljohn » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:16 am

Ed, those 2 flies are Hendricksons, I put the photo up in regard to Mike's mentioning of the long hooks :oops:


Here's a couple, Flick style...

Image

On Mustads 94837 #12. Think I found a vintage fly box for these things too! CJ
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